Shimano Bar End Shifters Install
Shimano Shifter bar end pod mount. Silver Shifters being mounted to bar-end pods. How to Measure & Install Shifter. Installing Dura Ace 10sp Bar End Shifters. Ask for advice or share your fettling tips. Why Shimano can't supply them fully assembled I don't know.
Hi, I’ve problem with adjusting my rear derailleur. It’s a Shimano XT 9- speed low normal (rapid rise) with XT 11-34 cassette and XT 9-speed chain. All of those are quite new and shouldn’t be worn out. The cable is new and just lubricated and the housing should be fine as well. The shifters are brand new Shimano Dura-Ace 9-speed bar-end shifters which I’m trying to install. Adjustment of the B-screw and H- & L-limit screws should be fine. I turned the adjuster on down tube cable stop halfway between all the way tight and all the way loose before attaching the cable.
The cable is tightened with 4th hand tool so there shouldn’t be any slack in it. I adjusted the rear derailleur like this: I chose the middle chain ring in the front and shifted to second largest cog in the rear. Then turned the adjuster until it shifted to third cog. Then I turned the adjuster back so that the derailleur shifted back to the second cog. And finally adjusted it so that it wouldn’t make any noise. The derailleur shifted relatively fine on the biggest cogs, but not the 3 smallest ones. If I adjusted it so that the smallest ones shifted fine, then the biggest wouldn’t - and vice versa.
Any ideas how to get it right? The low normal rear derailleur and Dura-Ace bar-end shifters should be compatible, right? Juhani Earl Grey 16.11.10 9:47. Juhani, From what I can tell you setup should work fine. Have you checked whether the derailer hanger is bent? Then follow Sheldon's derailer adjustment procedure on the same page (start on the largest cog instead of the smallest, as your derailer is low normal, and reverse all his instructions 'shift down' becomes 'up', etc.).
If it still doesn't work, simply turn the indexing off.:) I turned the shifting off on my 9 speed Shimano bar ends (with low normal XTR derailer) after getting Silver bar ends on my other bike. I much prefer friction shifting now, though for 20 years I rode bar ends in index mode. The Shimanos however don't friction shift as well as the Silvers, so I just ordered a second pair of shifters from Riv, and will just use the Shimano bar end pods with them. Gernot Earl Grey 16.11.10 9:54. Another thought: Are you sure the shifters are 9-speed? I can coax 8 clicks out of my Shimano 7 speed barends, so perhaps you have an 8 speed that gives you 9 clicks, but the amount of cable pull would be wrong, leading to mis- shifts at one end of the cassette or the other. This is mere idle brainstorming, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you have multiple bikes and wheels, and 7, 8, and 9 speed cassettes and chains lying around, going friction is an incredibly freeing proposition. Suddenly everything works with everything, and you don't even have to think about it! Good luck, Gernot On Nov 16, 10:11 pm, Juhani wrote: reynoldslugs 16.11.10 9:57.
I have the identical problem on my Davidson, with a 12-34 9 speed cassette matched to a 24-36-46 triple. The guys at the LBS tried everything, replacing each part, replacing all the parts, lubing, relubing, and readjusting the derailleur. My problem is the same that you describe: the derailleur can be adjusted so it does well with the three largest, or three smallest, cogs -but not all 9. This is a deeply perplexing issue, since the identical drive train on my Bob Jackson shifts just fine, dandy. For now, I have replaced the bar-end shifters with Paul Thumbies, moving the shfiters up on the top of my handlebars. Not as convenient, looks odd, but shifts somewhat better.
The chief mechanic, Loathsome Fritz, thinks the problem relates to the long cable runs. Shortening the cables by moving the shifters up top seems to help a little. Still not perfect. If you can figure this out, I will be grateful for whatever solution you can come up with. RL Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 16.11.10 11:34.
Thanks for all the answers. Earl Grey: Yes, the shifters is 9-speed (or atleast it has “compatible with 9-speed” text on it).
I used Silver Shifters before, but I found it really difficult to shift between the 4 largest cogs on 11-34 9- speed cassette while riding uphill with some cable tension. That’s why I wanted to go indexed.
Reynoldslugs: Did changing to Paul Thumbies solve the problem completely? Is the shifting as fine as with your Bob Jackson now? Jim: I checked that the cable is routed and attached to the derailleur correctly. The derailleur hanger looks just fine, but I don’t know how to check it more than that. Kuma: If I adjust the cable so that the 3-4 largest cogs shift nicely, the 3 smallest ones won’t - the derailleur jumps over the 2nd smallest cog and the smallest and 3rd smallest make noise. If I adjust the derailleur so that the 3 smallest cogs shift nicely, the largest ones won’t - the derailleur jumps over the 2nd largest cog on the way down and on the largest cog the chain rides on the top of the cog almost dropping down to the smaller cog. 3rd largest makes noise as well or the chain rides on the top of it.
Frederick, Steve: The dropouts are vertical. AJ: The washer is installed correctly I think (pointing straight down). Would it shift all the 9 clicks, if it was installed wrong? I also loosened the cable and tightened it without the 4th hand tool, played with different cable tensions and positions with the adjuster.
Nothing really helped. So basicly the problem is that on the largest cogs I’d need more slack on the cable and on the smallest cogs I’d need more tension on the cable. Any more ideas? Juhani Bill Lindsay 17.11.10 11:07. With your updated report you've ruled out cable and housing friction, and in my opinion have eliminated re-routing the cable/housing as a possible solution.
Sram Bar End Shifters
If it were friction related, you'd shift well in the 'pulling the cable directio' and poorly in the 'releasing the cable direction' over all 9 cogs. Since you have problems in BOTH directions on the bad cogs and it works in both directions on the good cogs, and since you can adjust any 2 or 3 cogs to be good, but that makes all the other ones bad, then this is absolutely a cable pull rate problem. Your derailleur is moving too far, or not far enough per click. That means you either have a combination of parts that don't work together, or you've attached the cable to the derailer incorrectly. If you run the cable on the wrong side of the anchor bolt, you change the effective shape of the linkage and the pull rates change. Some people creatively route the cable wrong to get a Shimano this to click correctly with a Campy that. On a Shimano Deore XT Low- normal rear derailer (both the current one without the adjusting barrel or the last one that had an adjusting barrel built in), the cable should be routed on the outside of the anchor bolt, on the near side closer to you when you face the derailer.
This is the opposite side to what you are used to if you normally set up non-rapid-rise, non-low-normal rear derailers. The photo of the XT low normal rear derailer on the Riv-site has it routed correctly: Check that first. Take a picture of it, so we can see that it is right. Juhani 17.11.10 12:15.
Well, you have it routed right. So you have a combination that probably tens of thousands of other cyclists have and for whom it works perfectly. That combination, based on how you described it, should be extremely difficult to NOT set up right.
But, for some unknown reason yours doesn't work. I think you are to the point where you have to have a pro look at it.
The explanation is either going to be some 'oh, duh' thing, like your 9-speed cassette really only has 8 cogs on it, or you accidentally swapped the floating upper pulley with the lower one, or overtightened the mounting screw on the shifter so the overshift-correction mechanism is binding at some places in the throw of the shifter. If it's not an 'oh, duh' think, then it might end up being something bizarre, like a defective shifter.
On Nov 17, 12:15 pm, Juhani Laitela wrote: Here's a photo of the cable routing on my XT low normal (rapid rise) derailleur: cable.jpg 84KViewDownload Juhani 17.11.10 13:00. Yes, it’s frustrating because I’ve only heard good things about this combination, but for some reason I can’t get it right. My rear cassette has 9 cogs for sure. And even if it didn’t, my Dura Ace shifters has written on them: “Compatible with RD-7700(9s) & RD-7400(8s)”. So it should work even with 8-speed cassette, right? I haven’t taken the rear derailleur apart so the pulleys are in the same place as it was mounted in the factory.
It worked fine with the Silver Shifters - except my problem with dialing in the biggest cogs right. And now I can get some of the cogs working - like 3 largest or 3 smallest - but not all of them at the same time. I haven’t torqued the mounting screw with a torque tool, so I’m not sure, but I don’t think it’s over the 10Nm recommendation. I could try to loosen it up a bit, if you think it could cause the problem. Bill Lindsay 17.11.10 13:16. The same shifter and derailer combination will never index on both Shimano 8 and Shimano 9.
Shimano 8 has 4.8mm spacing between cogs. Shimano 9 has 4.34mm spacing between cogs. That specification written on your shifter means that the amount of cable pulled by each click is right to make an RD7700 move 4.34mm and that same amount of cable also happens to make an RD7400 move 4.8mm. The geometry of the derailer parallelogram on all 9-speed Shimano derailers was designed to be equivalent, so that for 9 speed, one model of shifter is supposed to index correctly with any 9-speed shimano rear derailer.
Juhani 17.11.10 13:28. I mixed things a bit in my answer about the torque. The bar-end shifter pods are torqued without tool, but I think they are just right - around 7Nm. They seem very sturdy.
The screw that goes through the middle of the shift lever is tightened with a high quality torque tool to recommended 2,5Nm - and the shift lever feels just right with the “clicks”. The rear derailleur attachment bolt is torqued without a tool, but should be around the recommended 10Nm. The derailleur hanger looks just fine - it doesn't seem to be bend in anyway.
Should I be able to see if there was something wrong with it? In friction mode the shifting works fine. Or could it mess up the index shifting if it was off just tiny little - not visible for eye?
Earl Grey 18.11.10 0:15. I called my LBS, but they’re leaving to a bicycle show over the weekend. Their mechanic ask me every same question as you guys, and he couldn’t understand what could be wrong.
Installing Bar End Shifters
He told me that it sounds like it’s something wrong with the shifter or that Shimano has changed the cable pull for the 2010 rapid rise XT (which he hadn’t heard of). He said that even with quite bend derailleur hanger the index should work quite OK. So if it looks as straight as mine and works fine with friction, he thought it couldn’t be the problem. What do you think? I live in a country side and this is the only good bike shop here.
Sometime after the weekend I could go and show him the bike if I haven’t figured it out yet, but he said he really hasn’t clue what could be wrong. I triple checked that the shifter washers are mounted correctly and added torque to Shimano’s recommended max 3Nm. But the problem remains. Friction shifting works fine though. Juhani Phil B 18.11.10 12:15. Hi Juhani and RBWer's I looked at the photo in your post and immediately thought - the cables on the wrong side of the fixing bolt. But knowing how I have a penchant for having a big mouth and for being incorrect at times with my snap judgments, I withheld saying anything till I had a look around the house at mine.
So my Campy derailer cables are fixed on the bottom side - which doesn't proof anythiing - but I do have a NORMAL pull 9 speed XT RD with the groove in the casting for the cable on the underside of the bolt. Your reverse pull may require a different attachment point, I'm not familiar with them.
Any way it may be worth a look, and certainly would be a cheap fix. Hope this helps. Phil B On Nov 18, 4:47 am, Juhani wrote: I called my LBS, but they’re leaving to a bicycle show over the weekend. Their mechanic ask me every same question as you guys, and he couldn’t understand what could be wrong. He told me that it sounds like it’s something wrong with the shifter or that Shimano has changed the cable pull for the 2010 rapid rise XT (which he hadn’t heard of). He said that even with quite bend derailleur hanger the index should work quite OK. So if it looks as straight as mine and works fine with friction, he thought it couldn’t be the problem.
What do you think? I live in a country side and this is the only good bike shop here. Sometime after the weekend I could go and show him the bike if I haven’t figured it out yet, but he said he really hasn’t clue what could be wrong. I triple checked that the shifter washers are mounted correctly and added torque to Shimano’s recommended max 3Nm. But the problem remains. Friction shifting works fine though.
Juhani Juhani 19.11.10 10:13. A couple other variables to check -slack or poor seating in the cable housing/ferrule interface. That would tend to make itself known as you increase pressure. (I once found that an extra ferrule had been stuck into the derailleur body itself - couldn't see it, but realized that the other ferrule wasn't seated correctly). a loose freehub body. These are tightened into the hub shell with a hollow hex-head bolt. You have to remove the axle to tighten this.
loose cogs on the freehub. If the lockring loosens. In the latter two examples, you will feel either play of the sprockets, or the sprockets will be tight but the whole cogset will move together. Hope that helps, - J - Jim Edgar Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - Send them here - 'I threw one leg over my battle-scarred all-terrain stump-jumper and rode several miles to work.
I'd sprayed it with some cheap gold paint so it wouldn't look nice. Locked my bike to a radiator, because you never knew, and went in.'
- Neal Stephenson, 'Zodiac' eflayer 20.11.10 14:01. Are you still screwing with this? Check out these detailed instruction and notice the last paragraph re: Rapid Rise. Maybe there is something new here: On Nov 20, 1:22 pm, CycloFiend wrote: on 11/19/10 10:13 AM, Juhani at wrote: The cable is routed correctly I think. Here¹s a link to Shimano¹s technical instructions for the derailleur:. 50A001Env1m0616237.pdf I¹ve followed the instructions and secured the cable in the groove as supposed. What a mysterious problem.
A couple other variables to check - - slack or poor seating in the cable housing/ferrule interface. That would tend to make itself known as you increase pressure. (I once found that an extra ferrule had been stuck into the derailleur body itself - couldn't see it, but realized that the other ferrule wasn't seated correctly).
- a loose freehub body. These are tightened into the hub shell with a hollow hex-head bolt. You have to remove the axle to tighten this.
- loose cogs on the freehub. If the lockring loosens. In the latter two examples, you will feel either play of the sprockets, or the sprockets will be tight but the whole cogset will move together.
Shimano Shifter Parts
hope that helps- J - Jim Edgar Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - Send them here - Juhani 21.11.10 12:29. Hi guys, Yes, I’m still trying to figure out the problem. I promise I'll let you know if I get it fixed.
At the moment, I’m riding the bike with friction shifting, but I hope the indexing is eventually going to start working. I'll show the bike to the mechanic in my LBS next week. The guy in internet shop who sold me the shifter (and the other stuff) is going to talk with his mechanic as well. Maybe they can figure it out.
Thanks for the link Eddie. I’ll check it out. And thanks for the advices Jim. I’ve checked all the housing ferrules and I think they’re just fine. Also both cassette and freehub body is correctly torqued. Regards, Juhani Juhani 22.11.10 10:28.
It seems like the shifter is working now!:) Almost too embarrassing to tell how it went. I never got the shifting adjusted while the bike was in the stand (actually 2 different stands).
Trust me, I tried everything. That’s why I never tried it loaded - the shifting seemed far too nasty for that. Then I went for a ride today and headed to the hills nearby. I was riding with friction shifting, but thought I’d try the indexing just for fun for those gears that worked. I actually read the link that Eddie mailed (Thanks Eddie!). The article said “Most bikes shift differently in the stand than they do under load.” So I gave it a try.
To my great surprise, the shifting was completely different under load. So I actually got the shifting adjusted so that it works fine on all gears. It was much easier than while the bike was in the stand. I couldn’t hear any noise or anything from the gears.
But it was very windy and hard to hear anything, so we’ll see. All the gears seemed to be allright though. It’s still a mystery to me why it didn’t work in the stand, but I guess it’s two completely different things to use it under load or unloaded.
Thanks for all the help! If you have any reflections around this, please let me know. Regards, Juhani eflayer 22.11.10 10:59.
About For half a century, Tamia Nelson has been ranging far and wide by bike, boat, and on foot. A geologist by training, an artist since she could hold a pencil, a photographer since her uncle gave her a twin-lens reflex camera when she was 10, she's made her living as a writer and novelist for two decades. Avocationally her interests span natural history, social history, cooking, art, and self-powered outdoor pursuits, and she has broad experience in mountaineering, canoeing, kayaking, cycling, snowshoeing and skiing.